Curse

You just got tomahawked · Dec 08, 2006, 02:07 AM // 02:07

This is an honest non confrontational question intended for Gaile Gray. This is an honest question and not being facetious. This is also not a trick question. Does Anet want us to just play through the story and then drop the game or do they want us to just get what we need and then play it casually or do they want us to farm and get R14 hero and all that?
All I'm trying to get at is everyone is very confused in my guild if Anet like them to farm or not. I would love to see an updated answer from one of the mebers of the staff about this. I read threw all the posts and theirlike stuff about FoW and vabbian that i have an analogie for. When you first get out of college you might think Ohh...I want a Mercedes and a plasma tv and a buttler and all that. At the time thpugh you don't have the money for it. So...You work hardcore for many years to buy it. <<< that is real life farming.

shardfenix · Dec 08, 2006, 02:19 AM // 02:19

Arenanet is a company. They want to make money. The best way for them to make money is by getting people to buy the game.

What Anet really wants is for you to choose one of the things you mentioned, then get bored and do a different one, then do a different one, etc. They don't care about farming gold or titles.

More Outrage · Dec 08, 2006, 02:19 AM // 02:19

So I take it you have read all her previous post that have discussed the subject? I think not.
Do what you will as long as it`s within the EULA it`s OK.

King Kong · Dec 08, 2006, 02:20 AM // 02:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by You just got tomahawked

This is an honest non confrontational question intended for Gaile Gray. This is an honest question and not being facetious. This is also not a trick question. Does Anet want us to just play through the story and then drop the game or do they want us to just get what we need and then play it casually or do they want us to farm and get R14 hero and all that?

If Gaile could answer this I'd be happy person.

They want you to do the game then leave till next time, so it saves them bandwidth cost

Loviatar · Dec 08, 2006, 02:23 AM // 02:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by You just got tomahawked

This is an honest non confrontational question intended for Gaile Gray. This is an honest question and not being facetious. This is also not a trick question. Does Anet want us to just play through the story and then drop the game or do they want us to just get what we need and then play it casually or do they want us to farm and get R14 hero and all that?

If Gaile could answer this I'd be happy person.

here is the official answer from the head honcho himself

this is the whole complete answer not a smigen to fit.

Quote:

The topic is farming. Players have frequently asked about ArenaNet's philosophy on item and gold farming, and they've also been curious about our stance on the sale of Guild Wars items for real-world cash. Mike O'Brien, head of the Design Team, has provided us with some answers to this timely question.

What is the Guild Wars team’s philosophy on in-game farming?

In Guild Wars as in any other online roleplaying game, we think that maintaining a robust player-driven economy is important and adds a lot of fun to the game.

It’s true that Guild Wars is a competitive game and therefore focuses much more on player skill than on item acquisition. But PvM-oriented players still look for rare items that they can use to distinguish their characters, as well as long term goals that they can work towards acquiring. In order to allow the game’s economy to be an important and fun factor in PvM-oriented play but not create unfair imbalances in PvP-oriented play, we often make rare items easier to acquire for PvP use than for PvM use, or make rare items differ from common items only by their appearance. In general we try to make it much easier in Guild Wars than in most games for average players to acquire almost-the-best of everything, and to compete on a level playing field, while still giving the more hard-core players ways to differentiate their characters.

It’s theoretically possible to create an online roleplaying game without a player-driven economy. For example, you could make every variant of every item in the game available for purchase from NPC vendors. But that would take away a lot of the feeling of accomplishment of finding a rare item. Even that might not be enough, because if certain vendors were difficult to find or travel to, then players would still trade amongst themselves at above-vendor prices. More broadly, you could simply disable the ability of players to trade items or to drop them on the ground. None of this sounds particularly fun, and given that Guild Wars uses randomly generated loot, placing every variant of every item in the game on an NPC vendor is certainly not an option for Guild Wars.

Players often wonder why we allow prices to float on the traders, and this is fundamentally the reason. Traders are not vendors; they don’t offer an unlimited supply of rare items. They’re just there to facilitate trade between buyers and sellers. If the traders quote buy and sell prices that are outside the range of what players think the true value of an item is, then players simply stop using the traders and switch back to using chat to find trading partners. Of course, for any given type of rare item, we could theoretically stop treating it as a rare item and instead put an unlimited quantity on NPC vendors for sale at a fixed price. But this tends not to be a good idea for two reasons. First, player perception of the value of items tends to change over time; if the vendor sale price can’t adapt, then there will be times when the item seems undervalued and times when it seems too expensive and no one will buy it. As specific character builds go in and out of favor, the items that support those builds can experience wide swings in their perceived value. Second, Guild Wars will always have a player-driven economy because the game uses randomly generated stats on weapons and equipment. Those items can't effectively be sold by vendors, and the more we pull other types of items out of the player-driven economy by placing them on vendors and giving them fixed prices, the more we focus all price swings and inflationary pressures on the few remaining items that players still bid for, potentially pushing their prices far out of the reach of normal players.

Because Guild Wars does make extensive use of a player-driven economy, we at ArenaNet have a responsibility to manage the economy, and we take that responsibility seriously. You might ask: what exactly is our responsibility? Is it to keep prices within a certain range? Is it to maintain price stability? We think that, expressed in its most general terms, our responsibility is to keep the distribution of wealth as fair as possible, so that normal players can afford to bid for items in a player-driven economy. We need to avoid situations where a small subset of players can earn orders of magnitude more gold than the average player, thus driving up prices of rare items to a level where normal players could never hope to afford them.

There are three ways that certain players earn more gold than the average. The first and most obvious way is that, because everyone plays the game differently, some players are able to find unusually profitable areas to hunt in, or tricky strategies for killing a lot of monsters quickly. The search for the most effective way to play can be a fun part of the game for everyone -- we all like to see how well our characters can do, and whether we can tweak our characters to be better than they were previously -- and so we at ArenaNet don’t consider this a problem unless it’s extreme. Although a very knowledgeable or tricky player may be able to earn gold twice as fast as the average, this tends not to create a significant problem, because prices for items in the player-driven economy will still stay at levels where normal players can afford them. But sometimes differences in the distribution of wealth can be extreme; a group of players can find ways to earn gold ten times as fast as the average player. In this case, prices can rise to a level where normal players can’t afford to trade for items anymore. Then we have a problem, and we need to adjust the game to bring wealth distribution back into normal ranges. We constantly monitor the game, so we know when a certain place or technique is being heavily exploited. When an issue like this becomes too severe, we make tweaks as necessary to bring things back in line.

The second way that wealth distribution becomes a problem is when players use bots to farm gold around the clock. This is obviously unfair to the vast majority of players who play the game normally. We have no tolerance for bots. We constantly monitor for bots; we have tools that help us to easily identify them; and when we find people using bots, we permanently ban their accounts. This whole process is largely invisible to the average player, but behind the scenes, we’re regularly banning accounts for using bots.

The third issue, which is quickly becoming the biggest threat to the game’s economy, is companies that farm gold and items professionally and sell them for real-life cash. These companies hire large teams of people, often working in sweatshop-like conditions for very little pay, to play Guild Wars for many hours a day in order to rake in gold and items. The workers aren’t bots but they farm gold in similar ways, using very specific character builds to kill very specific monsters, running the same path and killing the same monsters hundreds of times each day, doing whatever exact sequence of actions their employer has determined is currently the most effective way to earn a lot of gold per hour. They then turn over what they’ve farmed to their employer, who sells the gold and items to other players for cash.

It creates a vicious cycle. If a player buys 1000 platinum pieces for real-life cash, and then uses that in-game wealth to make high bids for items in order to acquire all the rare items he wants, then in doing so he drives up the price of items in the game, causing other players to feel that they too need to buy gold in order to keep up.

Selling in-game items for cash is clearly against the terms of service, and engaging in any farming or storage activity that assists other people in selling in-game items for cash is also against the terms of service. If you're farming gold or items for someone who sells them for cash, you need to stop now. We are currently gathering data, and when we take action it will be to close entire networks of accounts at once: those used for farming, those used for storage, and those used for distribution. Buying in-game items for cash is also against the terms of service, so for those of you engaging in this practice, please understand that you're not only hurting the game in a way that makes it less fun for you and everyone else, but also risking getting your account permanently banned.

Of course, the number of players who engage in any of these activities -- farming exploits, using bots, selling or buying in-game items for cash –- is very small relative to the total player base. At ArenaNet we play the game just like you do, so we know that for most of you, gold is a precious commodity that you work hard to attain. In fact, our statistics show that 50% of all active accounts have fewer than 10 platinum pieces, and 75% of all active accounts have fewer than 20 platinum pieces. So when we make small tweaks here and there to keep the economy under control, please understand that we’re not trying to make the game harder for the average player. We work hard to understand how normal players play and how extreme players play, and then find just the minimal changes necessary to keep the economy healthy and fair.

You just got tomahawked · Dec 08, 2006, 02:27 AM // 02:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by More Outrage

So I take it you have read all her previous post that have discussed the subject? I think not.
Do what you will as long as it`s within the EULA it`s OK.

well quite frankly I have and between her posts and the game updates I'm very confused. i need some clarificaition.

Vahn Roi · Dec 08, 2006, 02:29 AM // 02:29

Farming hurts the economy when done on a large scale. Seeing as Anet has taken many measures to cripple said act makes me want to say "no" they don't want us farming.

More Outrage · Dec 08, 2006, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Go farm. As long as you don`t use 3rd party programs and you are using skill and judgement then I suppose it`s OK but expect the skill to be `nerfed` by ANet, especially if anyone and everyone can do what you do.

You just got tomahawked · Dec 08, 2006, 02:35 AM // 02:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

here is the official answer from the head honcho himself

this is the whole complete answer not a smigen to fit.

well that wholesomely and completely answers my question. ty. TO THE 55!!!!!!! (BATMAN THEME SONG)

Malice Black · Dec 08, 2006, 02:52 AM // 02:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vahn Roi

Farming hurts the economy when done on a large scale. Seeing as Anet has taken many measures to cripple said act makes me want to say "no" they don't want us farming.

Gaile has already said Anet has no problems with people farming as this is part of any MMO type game. The Bot code was put in place to try and limit the dmg large scale farming does.

wetsparks · Dec 08, 2006, 03:12 AM // 03:12

It says that 75% of players have less than 20k. That is kind of a suprise since people on this website say that they have several sets of 15k armor. Also, you can create a couple new characters in Nightfall and Factions, run around doing a couple quests and killing monsters and make 20k really fast. I found this out because I didnt know what character I wanted to make in Factions and so I made three different ones and played around with them and between the quest rewards of gold and commendations you can make a decent amount of money.

EternalTempest · Dec 08, 2006, 03:18 AM // 03:18

It's an older article but an accurate one. If anet allows it, you can farm that way. If it's a problem, they feel it's there responsibility to close it off.
If your against farming... anet disagree's with you. If your favorite way to farm is changed.. anet doesn't want you to do that anymore.
Anet is also altering the level / mob groups with farming in mind with future games now that they have to actively think about.
Remember the game started with random no-key chest free stuff that got exploited in all zones.

The big thing is no bots, or "human" bots that work for gold <-> $$$.

Enchanted Warrior · Dec 08, 2006, 03:46 AM // 03:46

I think if Anet really wants us to understand they can answer simply, and not as they did above. While complete in nature it's too complicated for some players to comprehend. To be honest it seems like it was written by their legal staff. Dumb it down and answer the questions as asked and they'll gain a lot of lost ground with players that have become very unhappy with how they perceive the game is being run.

Just sayin...

As I understand things.. If you over farm an area, your loot quality goes down the toilet. Move around, don't farm one area for hours. Don't exit and enter areas over and over to farm one mob, and for now accept that the quality of loot is mostly junk and will be that way until anet decides they have defeated the illegal farmers.

Matsumi · Dec 08, 2006, 03:55 AM // 03:55

I used to have an interview article from Guild Wars Hungarian in one of the fan site friday things, where Gaile talks about how they see farming as just another option, but not the only option. The link I had for it though, no longer works.

Shinto Sharingan · Dec 08, 2006, 04:01 AM // 04:01

Okay, here's my two cents...

Maybe instead of being a relentless, repetetive, monotonous farmer who helps to drain areas of their loot, you should try to be a more well-rounded player by:
-Playing the game and exploring.
-Playing elite missions and challenge missions.
-Working toward some prestigious title.
-Trying out PvP.
-Starting a new character of a new profession---try new things, you may find that you like it.
-Or, I dunno, making good friends and having fun with them!

Antheus · Dec 08, 2006, 04:12 AM // 04:12

So, it's wrong that I make 100k a day by selling DoA gems?

Am I hurting the economy? Am I an evil person? What is this farming nerf though speaketh of?

And how come Elona is a goldmine, that's making me more money in hours of gameplay that I made in weeks in Tyria?

Money is there. But if anyone chooses to farm trolls, why not. But do finally realize, that that's no way to make money. You earn a bit, but the "farming nerf" simply didn't happen.

Farming is about making money. Methods how it's done change. To make money, be on top of things. The trolls and the days of cyclone axe wammo are long gone. Adapt or perish. But the old ways are gone and aren't coming back.

You can farm your heart out. But the game on whole changes through time. Realize why you are farming. Working towards a goal? FoW armor? 15k armor? Simply money in bank? Once you sort that out this types of questions won't bother you anymore.

Anet wants you to have fun. So have fun. It's a game.

Dec 08, 2006, 05:12 AM // 05:12

Quote:

We need to avoid situations where a small subset of players can earn orders of magnitude more gold than the average player, thus driving up prices of rare items to a level where normal players could never hope to afford them.

they did a good job on avoiding that one

Senator Tom · Dec 08, 2006, 05:30 AM // 05:30

I was farming for my FoW armor one time...like hardcore farming, like 20 hours of farming then a little sleep then more farming. I got banned cause anet thought i was using a third party program, but i wasnt.

lyra_song · Dec 08, 2006, 05:51 AM // 05:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chop it Off

they did a good job on avoiding that one

And its why Anet introduced GREEN items.

Cheap, affordable, perfect items.

----------------

Some of the BEST farming i've done doesn't make much money (Less than 1 platinum per 12 minutes).

The best money making i ever had was Minotaurs at Elona (1 plantinum per 3-4 minutes).

------------------

Lets dumb down what Anet wrote paragraph by paragraph:

Player driven economy = Good

Guild Wars is PVP oriented, but we need to give PVE players something to do. Rare items are there for PVE players to hunt for, but rare items DONT IMBALANCE PVP.

We could remove the economy by using NPCs for everything, but thats not fun.

Stuff like ecto, shards and gems get expensive at the Trader because of players perceived values.

Anet doesn't want a small percent of players to be able to outbuy casual players and force prices up since they can afford it. They want prices to drop down so casual players can buy stuff too.

Anet discusses 3 methods of how players make money and how they adjust it:

1) Excessive Farming: They make tweaks to shutdown any extreme or excessive way of making money. ie: Skill changes and farming area changes, because it only benefits a small amount of players.

2) Botting: Kill and Ban the Botters

3) Buying Gold: Ban the gold buyers and shut down the companies that sell it.

Spending bought gold raises prices BADLY.

In conclusion, they aren't trying to ruin specifically YOUR fun, they are trying to even out the wealth in the game and keep prices within reason.
-----------------------------

Are they succeeding? well tahts debatable...

MerLock · Dec 08, 2006, 06:32 AM // 06:32

What about items for Fow armor? Will the shards and ecto ever become affordable for the average player? I think most of the ecto/shards are in the hands of the wealthy who farmed and gained wealth well beyound what the average player could.

So is A.net doing anything about that? Seems to me that ecto prices are just going up because it's harder to farm them now. As if they weren't expensive enough before.